Posts by Island Man

13

Anyone Know what happened to the Video that's brought down many JWs to Ex-JW land?

by PokerPlayerPhil in

i've been looking for a video done by someone who shows the warning by jesus saying "if anyone comes to you and say's "the appointed time is near" you are to run from them!

two people who left the watchtower said this has been one of the most powerful videos to get inside the heads of really smart elders and witnesses that don't come the regular way.. the gist of the video is the watchtower wrote a book called "the appointed time is near" and this goes against everything jesus christ warned people.

the problem with the watchtower's followers is they need "omens", "portents", "signs" to keep their followers following along their path lead by that dried up old carrot (the end) or (the appointed time).

Island Man

I'm not sure if this is the video you're referring to, but this one is also based on Jesus warning at Luke 21:8 but gives details of Russel's false end time predictions in the book "The time is at hand" before finally revealing the title of the book and the scripture at Luke 21:8. It's done in a powerful way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSYBUifr7Y0

99

Golden Rule: Pure Garbage?

by willmarite in

on another thread a poster made the comment that the golden rule was garbage.

she said it was arrogant and made assumptions.. i didn't want to derail that thread so i started another wondering if this is a common thought about this belief on this forum.

i guess i naively thought the value of doing to others as you want them to do to you was generally accepted as positive.. i understand people have different opinions of jesus as a person but i don't want to get into that here.

Island Man

"The Diamond Rule also has its own set of shortcomings. For example, what if someone's wish is detrimental to his own well-being? Should we treat that person as he/she wants to be treated despite said treatment poses an unquestionable threat to her well-being? it may be a difficult call sometimes.
One rule doesn't fit all, I'd say.
Eden"

I agree. But the same can be said for the golden rule: what if my desire of how to be treated is detrimental to my own well-being? Should I treat others as I want to be treated despite said treatment posing an unquestionable threat to their well-being? The advantage of the Diamond rule over the golden rule, is that of showing personal interest in wishes of others without presuming. But they both have the caveat of harmful wants.

99

Golden Rule: Pure Garbage?

by willmarite in

on another thread a poster made the comment that the golden rule was garbage.

she said it was arrogant and made assumptions.. i didn't want to derail that thread so i started another wondering if this is a common thought about this belief on this forum.

i guess i naively thought the value of doing to others as you want them to do to you was generally accepted as positive.. i understand people have different opinions of jesus as a person but i don't want to get into that here.

Island Man

"Island Man, "treat others the way they would want to be treated."
What if they want to be worshipped as gods?"

That's a fair point that applies equally to the golden rule - what if I want to be worshipped as a god? Should I then go around worshipping others? And then that would also mean that God does not follow the golden rule because he wants worship but refuses to worship others.

19

The multitude that no man can number

by SonoftheTrinity in

how can protection from destruction at armageddon be solely with the jehovah's witnesses when the great multitude is one that no man could number while the jehovah's witnesses put great effort into cooking statistics of how many jws there are worldwide?

the unscriptural scare tactics they use are blatantly insulting to anyone who can read a bible.

Island Man

I am convinced that the author of Revelation intended the "great crowd" to represent gentile christians; and the 144,000, the remnant of Jews who become christians.

Furthermore, the author seems to be saying that the gentile christians are Abraham's seed even though they aren't Jews. He does it by saying the great crowd is without number. He's basically alluding to God's promise to Abraham that his seed would be without number like the stars of the heavens.

The author is revealing that God's promise to Abraham gets fulfilled in a remnant of Jewish christians joined by a vast multitude of gentiles. This is essentially the same message at Romans 11:1-12.

It is also possible that the writer intended the 144,000 and the great crowd to be understood as being one and the same. Why do I say that? Well the early part of Revelation 7 has John hearing the number that were sealed out of every tribe of Israel, immediately followed by him seeing a great crowd of every nation. It is possible that the writer was using this format to reveal to the reader that the 144,000 "Jews" that John heard being sealed actually turns out to be a vast number of people of all nations, by way of a kind of dramatic and unexpected revelation that is contrary to what is expected.

41

"Jehovah's people as a whole can never be corrupted..."

by cappytan in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zgds4z-h2i.

transcript below (with key points of interest bolded):.

please open your bibles to phil.

Island Man

He said:

"There’s never a reason to stop serving Jehovah."

This statement contains an implicit bait and switch on the word "Jehovah". It baits "Jehovah" but what is really implied and gets switched around in the minds of indoctrinated JWs is "Watchtower / The Organization / The Faithful and Discreet Slave". Brainwashed JWs are expected - no programmed - to read the statement as:

"There is never a justifiable reason to leave the JW organization."

This is one of the most often used tools of psychological manipulation to get awakening JWs to turn a blind eye to the serious faults of the organization - the kinds of faults that JWs would readily point to in other religions as evidence of them being false and the need for persons in those religions to leave them. So it doesn't matter how corrupt, deceitful and foolish the leadership of the JW organization proves to be; or how false the organization proves to be, you still have to be a loyal follower because "serving Jehovah" is very foolishly and shamelessly self-servingly equated with membership in the organization - the very organization that proves to be false which should logically mean you should leave it as per Revelation's admonition to "get out of her my people!". But this fact gets conveniently ignored when it comes to the glaring sins of the JW organization; but readily applied to all others.

They are such unforgivable deceitful manipulators and hypocrites!

99

Golden Rule: Pure Garbage?

by willmarite in

on another thread a poster made the comment that the golden rule was garbage.

she said it was arrogant and made assumptions.. i didn't want to derail that thread so i started another wondering if this is a common thought about this belief on this forum.

i guess i naively thought the value of doing to others as you want them to do to you was generally accepted as positive.. i understand people have different opinions of jesus as a person but i don't want to get into that here.

Island Man

Here's what's wrong with the golden rule:

Different people like to be treated differently. The way John likes being treated may be an annoyance to me. So if John follows the golden rule by treating me the way he wants to be treated, he would be a pain in the ass to me.

The golden rule ignores human individuality. It leads one to act presumptuously by projecting ones own preferences onto others. The Diamond Rule is superior: "treat others the way they would want to be treated."

Imagine being the guest in the home of someone of some exotic culture and he offers you what is considered the delicacy in his culture and which he loves. With the Golden Rule mindset, your host expects you to love the meal because he loves it and is giving you with the expectation that you will love it too. With that mindset, your host could easily be offended if you genuinely do not like the meal and stop eating after the first bite. The Golden Rule facilitates such taking of offense because it projects your own preferences onto others. By contrast, if the host had the Diamond Rule mindset, he wouldn't presume to project his own likes onto you. He may offer you a small sample of their delicacy to see if you like it, and if you don't he wouldn't take offense because the Diamond Rule acknowledges that we have different preferences and seeks to know the preferences of others instead of presumptuously projecting our own preference onto them.

The Golden Rule has a form of love that proves to be somewhat superficial. The love of the Golden Rule is not genuinely interested in the person - for it does not seek to ascertain the person's preferences so as to know how to treat them. It overlooks this because it is more interested in proving itself righteous and so presumes, egotistically to project the giver's own preference onto the person.

By contrast, the Diamond Rule shows personal interest by ascertaining the preference of the person so as to know how to treat them. It shows genuine personal interest instead of focusing on proving the lover righteous at the expense of overlooking the preferences of the one being loved.

The Golden Rule is proof that the book of Matthew is not the inspired word of a superior all wise God whose thoughts are superior to our own. In fact, the Golden Rule is not even original to the bible but has been expressed by others living before the time of Jesus.

The Golden Rule is what some might call a "deepity" - a pithy saying that has an air of charisma to it but upon closer scrutiny proves to lack an intelligible meaning or the great depth of insight or substance it pretends to have. Charismatic sounding slogans tend to be like that. True wisdom is often very lacking in charismatic appeal.

51

I'm my favorite type of JW - Double Life

by thedepressedsoul in

the borg's tactics on most jw work.

they put fear into their mind, they guilt trip them and basically make them scared to do anything when they are away from the kingdom hall.

it allows them to control every aspect of their life.

Island Man

By the way, there's also another kind of JW - the triple-lifer. Believe me, they exist! An example of a triple-lifer would be a JW who is gay but living in a strongly homophobic society and so has to live his gay life secretly from everyone who is not gay . . . in addition to also living a secret, non-gay worldly life outside the kingdom hall. Three lives: gay, general worldly and JW. And that can even be 4 lives if he's a closet atheist who only lives out his atheism anonymously online.

51

I'm my favorite type of JW - Double Life

by thedepressedsoul in

the borg's tactics on most jw work.

they put fear into their mind, they guilt trip them and basically make them scared to do anything when they are away from the kingdom hall.

it allows them to control every aspect of their life.

Island Man

"I'm not sure why but for some reason it makes me feel better than if I just straight up left. There is something about the feeling of hearing their crap and rules beyond the bible and then being able to go home and do as I please."

I think this is the same kind of thrill that some get from stealing and getting away with it. It's the thrill of secretly cheating and getting away with it. Some people steal, cheat on their taxes and commit other criminal cheating acts, not for the material advantage it gives them, but just for the thrill of being able to cheat and get away with it.

If it works for you as an awake JW in helping you keep your sanity, then by all means embrace it. It's one of several coping mechanisms that awake JWs who are trapped can use.

But you're not a true hypocrite. You're just deceitful - justifiably deceitful. A true hypocrite is never honest with himself in acknowledging that he's being a hypocrite. A true hypocrite is blinded by pride and/or self-righteousness from seeing his double-standards.

45

How to Choose a Wife!

by snugglebunny in

jw
friends

back in the day, when my family moved to a new congregation, i fell head over heels with a young sister who was an elder's daughter.

it wasn't long before we were talking about marriage and i was contemplating buying her an engagement ring.

my parents were not happy at all.

Island Man

Village Idiot erroneously said, "I've heard that men outnumber women 2 to 1 making it difficult for a woman to get a husband."
Correction, it's actually the reverse.

And here I thought you were being sarcastic.

94

Disowning the God of the OT is not an Option

by cofty in

it's to their credit that many modern christians prefer the jesus of the gospels to the god of the old testament.. ot god is an embarrassment.

i am not going to list his multitude of moral crimes here but my personal favourite is his brilliant idea that a girl who is raped must marry her rapist.

it's not his biggest crime but it demonstrates a disregard for human feelings that is beyond the comprehension of every moral person.

Island Man

Is the OT God kind and loving but yet commands and condones injustices like slavery, genocide and misogyny?

Then he is not perfectly just.

Is he perfectly just but his sense of morality is so superior to our own that we cannot appreciate that slavery, genocide and misogyny are perfectly moral and just under certain circumstances?

Then we are not made in his image.

Are we made in his image but cannot appreciate the morality of the slavery, genocide and misogyny of the bible because certain details that would help us to see the justness of such occurrences have been omitted from the bible accounts?

Then the OT God is not a wise author as he does a great disservice to his own reputation by omitting such critical details.

Is the OT God a wise author but deliberately omitted critical details needed to get the true appreciation of the morality of seemingly immoral acts, as a means of testing the motives of readers, sifting out which readers he wants as worshippers and which ones he wants to reject him?

Then the OT God clearly wants as his worshippers, selfish, cowardly, might-is-right opportunists who value their eternal salvation over truth and justice and who would turn a blind eye to his injustices for the sake of their own personal benefit.